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April 15, 2011

Comments

Koni

Excellent Post Nurit. I always enjoy your writings.

I had a related (sort of) experience this past summer. I was on a first date with a guy that I met through a parent at work. We met at a coffee shop and then took a walk around the scenic area of our city. We had a very nice time and I noticed and was relieved he didn't touch me or try to touch me at all. It was wonderful and I told all my friends.

I hate having to navigate the social waters of "dating touch". a brush of the fingers? hand holding? hugs? more? whats ok, whats not? etc.
Though I am not Jewish I ahve always supported and (though this word is overused) loved the "no touch" laws of the faith.

So to sum up: Great Post! Thanks for Sharing.-Koni

Laura

I'm not Jewish, and neither is my husband, but we sort of followed those rules when we first started dating without even realizing it. We were set up by mutual friends; didn't touch at all until the third date when I hugged him at the end (wanted to show him I liked him); didn't start holding hands until we decided that we were "official"; and he didn't kiss me until after he proposed to me. Both of us wanted to wait until we were engaged to kiss.

Yes, a lot of our friends thought we were nuts. But I wouldn't change our courtship for anything.

Melissa May

My dating experience with my husband was similar to Laura's. My husband and I didn't kiss until we were engaged and we only held hands or hugged after we were "official". Thankfully most of our friends were practicing the same ideas in their relationships so it wasn't too awkward with them.
I recall being teased a lot by the girls in my dorm who were much more physically involved with the guys they dated (casually or seriously). However, I also recall being seriously envied when I received flowers at my dorm room on more than once occasion, and when I showed up after winter break with an engagement ring.
It's always sad to me when I watch young women give and give and give physically in order to get a guy to like or love them, only to end up dumped once he's bored. I know the girls in my dorm that I'm speaking of tried to play it off like they were the ones in control and were totally fine with the status quo, but I could see and hear it in their words that they were really just putting up with what they thought they were *supposed* to do in the dating scene.
If you want to be treated with respect and care, don't settle for anything less. Don't compromise on the things that you value. It might be a longer wait for the right man's attentions, but it's worth the wait when he finally comes along.

Karen D'Anselmi


I just love your articles, and I generally forward them to my 15 year old daughter, but I could not in good conscience forward this one because then I would have to explain about perverts who want women to pee on them, and I think she is bombarded by enough sickening stuff not to have this come from Modestly Yours. I think that your updates are always thought-provoking and right on target, and I am glad you are not "prudish," but I just want you to think about the fact that those who could benefit greatly from Modestly Yours (smart, lovely, savvy teens) probably shouldn't be learning about specific, new (for them) forms of perversion on this forum. A bit of prudential generalizing might be called for here, since most teens (and of course their moms) have experienced disappointment of some sort in guys who seemed wholesome and nice and then approached them with an inappropriate comment or advance. But men wanting them to pee on their leg? I'm sorry, it is just too completely "yuck!" It is not necessary in getting your point across, and does damage to the otherwise totally excellent message.

Emily

Karen I understand the way you feel but this is not Nurit's idea, this
is a very famous episode of "Sex in the City." Yes always a good idea
to prescreen posts before forwarding them to even older children--I do the same
because I have found that not all posts are for all age groups.

nurit weizman

Thank you both Karen and Emily for your comments.

Karen, I completely agree with you that this should be a message that teenagers can identify with as well and changed the article accordingly. As Emily pointed out already, this idea was from a very famous TV episode that sadly many women could identify with. The character in the show was a politician who seemed to be a wonderful gentlemen, but who turned out to be quite disturbing and manipulative--which is why I chose to allude to it in the article. My apologies for any offense--I hope the article is much more accessible and enjoyable with the edit that was made.

Brian Jones

I think that if you desire these things as a woman that you inform men that they've crossed your boundaries. As in the example above, the woman who had her shoulder tapped, I would hope that she would have the courage to tell the man that he was not suppose to do this before she left.

Karen D'Anselmi

Thank you, Nurit, I passed it on to my daughter, who completely appreciated it! I want to assure you that no offense was taken and I will return often to your insightful discussions. Although we do not watch "Sex in the City," my daughter is exposed ("through the grapevine" and what I affectionately call the "girl vine")to enough to make the message completely understandable without any specific reference necessary. Now she can forward it to friends both older and younger than herself.

Lisa Nash

What a great post. :) I have had a similar "US version" of this conversation with a few friends of mine. One friend was struggling with having a conversation with her boyfriend about her desire to stay chaste before marriage. It seemed so strange to me that she should be the one having to "out" herself as one of those weirdos who doesn't want to have sex before she's married. But I was able to encourage her, and I shared with her what I learned myself. Having conservative views of what physical contact is appropriate can narrow your dating pool down *quite* a bit, and there will be times when you wonder whether there are any men left in the world who are compatible with you. And yet, when you do meet one, he's been "prescreened" as at least more likely to be a decent guy, and to mesh with your values. Who knows?

Ilana

The Mensch test covers speech too. Most men I know respect boundaries, and I like it that way. One male acquaintance used to compliment me on a new dress or ask me if I had lost weight. I felt uncomfortable, and eventually I told him to look at his wife. He stopped! And we continued our cordial relationship.

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