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January 05, 2011

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Cady Driver

Ugh.....I can't even imagine being demeaned in this way just to get your naked pic in a magazine! What are these women thinking! This is progress for feminism?

Have we all gone mad? For a man to pay women to have sex with him and then pay for them to SURGICALLY change their faces and bodies so that they all look like his ideal....this is insanity......!!! And feminists criticize marriages where the husband loves and provides for his wife and children and label the stay at home mom/wife as demeaning herself.

I don't see any liberal feminists knocking down the doors of the Playboy mansion, demanding that Hugh treat those women with respect. Why is that?

Shanna

..........Cady. You're too smart to keep buying into the notion that all feminists think the same, or that feminism is a movement that believes and stands for exactly the same thing without having factions and schools of different thoughts. You're too smart to not google and see just how feminists feel about playboy.

Why are you allowed to make broad generalizations insulting feminism, when the same sort of comments made against the modesty movement isn't cool?

Emily

I agree with Cady. A lot more feminists seem more interested in criticizing the modesty movement and making fun of it, than criticizing Playboy. I think they have a hard time criticizing Playboy because all this exhibitionism is considered "empowerment" for a certain strain of feminism (namely the most vocal 3rd Wave.) But I agree with Shanna that not all feminists are pro-Playboy. The ones who are against Playboy are getting older though and don't seem to be part of the current feminist movement.

Cady Driver

Well, Shanna, to be honest with you, I don't have a very high opinion of modern feminists or their movement. Feminists did some good things when the movement started, but they currently don't have a great track record right now.

Yes, you can google feminists and see their reaction to Playboy, but where are the big voices and big name feminists who are speaking out and making a difference? Do you see any in Hollywood, any big name starts doing this?

Shanna

Not currently. The larger names in feminism seem to be more concerned with gay marriage, transgender rights and reproductive rights as of right now. But I don't exactly see you or any other major modesty player working hard to bring down unlawful polygamy, domestic abuse, other large issues that many of your critics would argue your way of life can foster, so quite honestly your criticism comes as a cheap shot. You're not impressed with feminism. Many of the dissenting voices on this blog are not impressed with the modesty movement. Yet if someone says "Modesty/religious people want to criticize my marriage and my choice to continue working as being a bad mother" They would be told "Oh no, we never do that" or "You shouldn't be so judgmental, you don't know anything about us." If someone were to say "I don't see any modestly advocates knocking down the doors of a polygamy compound, demanding they start treating women with respect, why is that?" It would be derided as trolling. But against feminism? OH thats okay, feminism is an acceptable target apparently.

I'm disappointed that you did not extend the same respect to the "other side" that you expect for yourself. Never mind that Feministing has a bunch of articles on how damaging Playboy and it's type of porn is to society, never mind that jezebels been busting on Hugh's engagement.

(Generally speaking, the strain I've picked up on is, owning and even displaying ones sexuality CAN be empowering, but it largely depends on context. Playboy is rarely empowering, but it doesn't mean that the individual can't be or isn't. Obviously the people of this blog wouldn't find it so, but that doesn't mean those who do are duped into, nor does it give them the right to say someone is duped or oppressed because they do not find exhibitionism to be empowering. We get no where with finger-pointing and blame. Everyone's different. What is oppressing to one's sexuality is liberating to another. How can we expect civil discourse if we're always judging the choices of the other side as inherently wrong, without taking the other side's views and feelings into consideration?)

Cady Driver

Hi again, Shanna. I love it when you stir the pot b/c it means that you are seriously considering these issues and you bring up completely valid points.

I was reading this paragraph today that I thought was illuminating.

It said:

"There are several things which may help to make the life fair in the eyes of men, but nothing will make it amiable in the eyes of God, unless the heart be changed and renewed. Indeed, all the medicines that can be applied, without the sanctifying work of the Spirit, though they may cover, they can never cure the corruptions and diseases of the soul....

Such civil persons go to hell without much disturbance, being asleep in sin, yet not snoring to the disquieting of others; they are so far from being awaked that they are many times praised and commended. Example, custom and education may also help a man to make a fair show in the flesh, but not to walk after the Spirit. They may prune and lop sin, but never stub it up by the roots. All that these can do, is to make a man like a grave, green and flourishing on the surface and outside, when within there is nothing but noisomeness and corruption."
GEORGE SWINNOCK

See, Shanna, it's the issue of the heart and where the heart is in response to what your view of God is. Even the most religious person can, as George Swinnock says, "make a fair show in the flesh" but never "stub sin up by its roots". That is why you find some abuses within some extreme religious communities. Thankfully, though, these abuses aren't the norm.

I sincerely think that what the modesty movement attempts to do is to root out the issues of why women feel the need be exhibitionists in our culture. In examining many of the causes of immodesty, we find that there are women who are seriously hurting from their pasts and they are damaging their futures by throwing away everything that was once held in high esteem....things like virtue, modesty, marriage, respect, etc. These are timeless principles that have been tossed to the wayside and we've exchanged them for what?

Just look around you! The culture is in shambles....families are in shambles.

I sincerely applaud the Modesty movement and Wendy for facing the criticism and scorn of others so that some might see the truth in what she is saying.

Lisa Nash

Wow, modesty causes polygamy? I am learning more and more every day...

Shanna

Well Cady, two comments I've posted have apparently not passed moderation. I really don't know how to say you dodged my question any more respectfully then I already have.

admin

Shanna, you have made 3 comments on this post and they have all been posted. There are no comments of yours pending moderation, anywhere in the system.

Robin Goodfellow

Admin,

I have noticed once or twice when I have posted, that comments seemed to have been approved "irregularly" at times? (Resulting in the perception that [we're] being ignored)

I've dissented before here sometimes too, and I know it's easy to feel a degree of prejudice when your thinking is outside the group's norm.

So I thank you for showing patience and understanding to people like me and Shanna.

AlexandraFoley

This helps confirm my belief that those who flaunt a sex, sex, sex lifestyle don't usually enjoy good sex. Thanks, Hugh for the insight.

jubilee

I think Hefner was always UNABLE TO PERFORM SEXUALLY with one person, so he just was 'entertained' by these women while he masterbated--he could PROBABLY never have complete intercourse (did he have children, if not, thats why)--since he was always a pervert--he did a lot to ruin marriages of normal men who could perform with wives normally--sad---

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