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September 21, 2009

Comments

Jenna

This a good post and puts to words some of the things I have recently been feeling.

Mark Wisecarver

Thank you. :-)
I might be rare but there are others like me. (Man of God, no drinking, no cursing, no smoking, striving for Integrity in all things.)
My lovely wife and three children are more important to me than anything else on Earth. (God is always first.)
Each and every day I remind my 2 sons about the importance of respect and kindness toward women, especially their sister. ;-)

talia

yuck.
i disagree with shirts that say things like that--true. but no, i'd rather not see a return to men opening the door for women. personally.

Robin Goodfellow

Hmm. What do I say? I say,

"May I take you out for coffee sometime?" ;)

* * *

This post has probably been one of the most kind and thoughtful ones I've read in a long time, from a guy's perspective.

I've said for a while now that this issue (being chaste/modest) can only be effectively addressed when both sexes are on the same side... and that's not going to happen when we guys are the target of unkind ridicule.

(Neither sex deserves such ridicule in the first place)

So I'm happy when I read a post like this. Puts both men and women on the same page, and same worth.

Thank you for your warm and gracious words :)


PS
I am totally impressed by your use of the word "misandry", considering many misandrists wouldn't know the word exists lol

Marauder

Talia - what's wrong with men opening doors for women? I'd rather have them do that than let a door slam in your face when you're carrying grocery bags.

Sarah M

wonderful post! Am passing this on...

Megan S.

Great food for thought. I, too, have a problem with the way men are portrayed on TV and in commercials. Looking forward to reading the book...

Liesl

Awesome post! It is so true (and sad!) that our culture supports women who decide to raise kids on their own, working outside home and only using me for sex and babies, while crushing any man who refuses to act like the men on sitcoms. I agree with your promise, and I promise it as well. All God's creations (men and women) RULE!!! :)

Laura

I don't get this man-bashing. My mother's sisters bash men (including their husbands) all the time, it's disgusting. These same aunts are the ones who act like it's a terrible thing that my mom only had one daughter and had three sons. I don't think it was terrible I grew up with brothers--I'm actually glad I did.

I have noticed that a good man can provide a stable influence in a woman's life. I lived with a probable total of 30 girls while I was in college. Hormones and drama galore. I am married now and it is so wonderful to have a husband who can calm me down and put things in perspective when I am going crazy. He's the best roommate I've ever had. He can do things I can't do and I can do things he can't do. It all works.

I love my husband and the men in my life very dearly. There are plenty of jerks out there, but I think if we all treated each other with common courtesy and kindness, this world would be a much better place.

Tom Babcock

I tend to differentiate between TV (movies/books/cartoon) humor and the more perverse sexism (be it from either gender) that actually believes women should be barefoot and pregnant and out of the workplace, or that men are macho jerks. That is not to say humor cannot be cruel. It certainly can. But shouldn't we all be able to laugh ar ourselves on occasion, like, "Haven't I done that? Ooh, I must have looked like an idiot!" Were the antics of Lucille Ball the kind of things only a woman could do? Or could we all relate on some level--trying to game the system without getting caught? We get in trouble when we believe in our jokes and caricatures--be they about Palin, Bush, or Obama more recently. I'd much rather see my daughter with a "Girls rule the world" T-shirt than one saying "my eyes are up there, stupid" or "trust me they're real"

that guy

Re: Headless Unicorn Guy

You make a very good point about how the modern woman engages in Adversarial Mating. But focusing on that will just leave you bitter and angry.

You sir, need "the book of Pook" http://www.jbspencer.com/djb/Downloads/The%20Book%20of%20Pook.pdf

Here also the Don Juan Bible:
http://www.jbspencer.com/djb/

You must unlearn what you have learned.

Alexandra Foley

I heard Joy Behar say on her show last night, "The Patriarchy! That is inequality! I'd prefer a Matriarchy!" Huh? Do you hear yourself??

kat

Oh so true!

While I can't say that the men in my life are perfect, I still wish we'd support guys who are trying to make the best of themselves instead of just putting them down. I'm honored to have been a friend and sister to some of the best people I've known my age---and they are guys. Both sexes should learn respect for each other, and quit this thing about domination!

Aliza Racelis

Great stuff! For info, I've put a link to this site, here: http://opusdeitoday.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=46
I hope you can comment.
Thanks!
-Aliza

talia

Marauder:
To clarify, yes, I do understand it's common courtesy to hold the door for a person who happens to be close behind you, *especially* if it looks as though they're carrying too much stuff to open it with ease themselves. In no way am I trying to advocate the rudeness of slamming doors in the faces of people with armloads of groceries.
I DO think that holding the door for people should be based on, like I said, common courtesy. I hold the door for both men and women. It's not like I say "thank you" to a woman who holds the door for me and then snap at a man who does the same thing. It is, however, that I refuse to allow such things to go on *because of* my gender. If I'm walking with a guy and he runs ahead of me to open the door, that's a turn-off to me.

Naomi

I do agree that some feminists take their cause to a degree they shouldn't, but that doesn't mean we aren't battling for a reason. Womem and men are to be treated equally and valued equally. There is no reason one gender should be considered better then the other. The key is that we are all human beings.

I do intend to read this book, it will definetely provide me with new insight, but maybe guys should also get more pro-women novels off the shelves. One being, I think the greatest case for feminism of all, "The War Against Women."

If we are to be sensitive to men's issues, they should be sensitive to ours as well. Wouldn't you agree?

Once again, I have nothing against the male population. I advocate equality for every human being.

fred

if you want to save the males - start reading articles about men and women at www.savethemales.ca

T.L.

this is so stupid! we don't live in a post-feminist world. women are bashed constantly and there are shirts that say far worse than the ones you list. men don't need saving as there is still so much inequality in the world. and more chivalry is not the answer! yuck!

Kathryn

Interesting post, and I completely agree with you about the gender bashing t-shirts and the portrayal of "bumbly dads" on sitcoms. HOWEVER, before we jump on a bandwagon to "save the males" we need to be very careful to look at all of the real issues. Gender inequality is a very real—frequently lethal—issue around the globe. Even in the US, women still suffer ominous inequalities. Consider that 1 in 7 women will be sexually assaulted in her lifetime (compared to 1 in 33 for males). Although gender bashing is always wrong, we do NO ONE a favor by shutting our eyes to the real sins that are being committed against women, both in our country and around the world.

blackcherryorchid

I agree with T.L. that this post assumes that the system of patriarchy (male-dominated society) no longer exists. Who cares about a little girl's t-shirt when all of the major corporations, the political structures, management..basically, the people who have real power, these are all strongly dominated by men. And they use this position to oppress women.

I agree that the t-shirts are wrong and counter-productive, but who owns the companies that produce them and the stores that sell them? Who profits, who is made more powerful?

ECL

The problem with the referenced book is that it is skewing reality. Women are not shutting men out, rather men are fleeing their responsibility. The majority of men who asks for joint custody, gets it. Men need to be more egalitarian partners for the wives both inside the household and out. Once again, social ills are placed on women's shoulders. A more useful approach would be to ask what social factors are creating these circumstances. One example is the declining value of the male wage. And before anyone blames this on women as well, it's actually due to the decline of the corporate wage bargain as companies seek to squeeze out greater and greater profits at the expense of their employees.

Robin Goodfellow

Men will not support women who are proud to bash men (and neglect is equally as powerful as actively bashing). From a purely selfish viewpoint, why should [we]?

That's why little girls who wear "Girls rule, and boys drool" shirts, are a bad idea. They'll grow up misandrist, and many from a guys' perspective not "worth" the effort of treating well if they're proud of being a "b*tch".

Fighting fire with fire, when you're effectively already losing, just seems like a dumb idea. But inspire us to stop being misogynists by being anything but misandrists yourselves (and I'm not saying be total pleasers, either, because real mean don't want that), you'll do a lot of good for your cause.

Men love having something to "fight" for. Right now, we're just fighting (and winning) for the wrong things.

ibbeita

I believe that everything is just flipped upside down and wrong. I come from a family where my father fled HIS responsibility as a dad and left my mom high and dry as an eighteen year old. The reason why women are being forced to be single parents is because of things like this. And who is anyone to say that we HAVE to work it out with the one we're going to have a baby with. What if he's a slimeball and majorly abusive?

I just believe that this world [Errr....America, at least] is a male-dominated society. It probably will be like that for a longgg time, because a LOT of men are hungry for power...or at least have a bigger drive for it than most women do. And if they don't, they're God-loving....And what if that's not something, someone such as myself, is looking for?

Meg

I believe that the 'equality' feminists promote is unrealistic. We all learn at an early age that LIFE ISN'T FAIR. This wouldn't be the case if equality was an achievable ideal, but it isn't. It's akin to saying that all people should be equally attractive. As unfair as it might be, we are not, and there's nothing we can do about it. The funny thing is, I don't hear feminists who are gifted in that area complaining about how unfair it is. In the same way, men and women are not and never will be perfectly equal. Each gender has its own unique strengths and weaknesses; society wouldn't have evolved the way it has were that not true to an extent.

I also believe that feminism is part of the cause of men "fleeing their responsibility." Women have asked to be treated like men, and how have men responded? They do exactly that. Why would a man feel responsibility to stay and help raise the child of another 'man,' even if the child was his too? He wouldn't. We women have turned ourselves into the 'man' raising the child. Feminists have no right to complain when their men "flee their responsibility," because their men are only acting as they would towards another man.

Of course, that isn't to justify the actions of the man who chose to leave; it was still wrong of him, but maybe it gives us some insight into why he felt no responsibility to stay.

Robin Goodfellow

Meg,

We both know that men and women aren't the same, right? But what's the deal with saying that not being the "same", means not being "equal"?

It's wordplay, but I think it's important. And I think that that's the point that a lot of feminists get criticized for.

I also think that an attractive person won't wish to be found unattractive simply because it goes a little against the self-esteem attached to self-preservation.

But it's true, I do feel a little undervalued as a man when feminists don't appreciate the good things men do (and WANT to do) for women, when we feel that that's what being a man is.

I was even talking to a female psych student last week, and she scoffed at the notion that men and women are different, and found sites like artofmanliness.com (a male community striving towards being better men) "quaint" at best.

However (to also respond to ibbeita's post), that's no excuse for men to give up on their own honour, integrity... and even, their own "tenderness".

(And in regards single moms, by their choice or otherwise, I fail to see how saying something that could be regarded as reinforcing the "popularity" of deadbeat dads, could help. I also don't buy the line about one man not raising another's son.)

I'm neither power-hungry, nor "God-loving", and I'd be quite alright with a world that isn't dominated by _either_ sex. I'm also someone who doesn't take particular enjoyment in patronizing anyone, either, so my apologies if I've come off that way.

Koni

This was one of the most thoughtful things i have read in a while. I am definitely going to look for this book. Its funny how the pendulum (spelling?) has swung so far in the other direction, that girls were once denied education and now boys get the short end of the school stick.

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