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September 10, 2007

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Comments

warren

Chastity and Modesty includes all aspects of every person, male and female's life. Not only how you dress, but of course how you carry yourself. The whole "let's cross every line that's out there and pretend it's just brave to break all social taboos" is not modest. Virtue means seeking the best for yourself, and for others. Which means, not throwing yourself at others. Okay, so I think a Burqa (in islam) and never speaking to a man (in ultra-orthodox Judaism) is going a little far. But I appreciate the effort not to be 100% driven by our sex-crazed culture to act, as well as dress, in a manner disrespectful to your own dignity, and to the dignity of others.

W

Gila

Ultra-orthodox Jewish women are allowed to speak (and look at) men. Don't believe what you read in the papers. Otherwise, interesting points Warren.

Anna S

Batya, *of course* modesty includes also behavior! Sometimes I see girls dressed very modestly and stylishly, yet they don't actually talk - they just flirt and giggle. Very loudly. I'm sorry, but that's immodest.

I'd love to go to a finishing school too :) I've been fascinated with the idea ever since I first saw 'Ladette to Lady' a couple of years ago.

Many blessings, Shana Tova U'metuka!

Dusty Brahlek

I would be suprised if anyone who made it to this blog thought dress was the only part of modesty... However, I do have people I work with...

Joi

I'm so envious! That sounds fascinating, and fun as well!

An immodest person will be immodest in long sleeves. A modest person will be modest even on the beach. While amount of clothing is relevant, it's certainly not the last word on the subject!

Kelly Paal

I always assumed that modesty, specifically how you dress, and your behavior go hand in hand.
Also I think a finishing school is a great idea. It's a shame that it's such a rare thing today. Our children spent so much time and we spend so much money on education and not only is it not taught in schools but few teach it at home.

Emily

Behaviour is FAR more important than 'covering up'- there are tribes of people living traditional lives on the land with barely a stitch of clothing on with very involved codes of appropriate behaviour.

mary o'hayes

On a slightly related note, I often found myself disappointed in how President Bush's daughters carried themselves a few years back. I recall the younger one being seen drinking in bars when she was underage. Both women have been photographed in clothes that I thought were too revealing (too tight or low neckline) for young ladies whose father was the president of the United States, and leader of the Free World. I wish they carried themselves more like "daughters of the King."

Warren

Gila; Regarding orthodox Jewish women not speaking to men; You're 100% right. Not sure where I got that idea. Oops. Sorry.

Warren

Lauren

I think that behavior is a core component of modesty, possibly even moreso than dress.
Let me explain. I consider myself a Modern Orthodox Jewish woman and in terms of dress, I wear pants, short sleeves, and the necklines on my shirts and dresses may below my collarbone. I consider myself a modest person.
While dress does make a difference and different clothes give off different messages, I think that there is too much emphasis put on clothing and not enough put on behavior. Just because I wear pants and short sleeves does not mean that I'm a not-modest person, and just because I wear long sleeves and a long skirt does not make me a modest person; all it means is that I'm dressed in a so-called modest way, but that is no reflection of my behavior. I might just like to wear pants because I'm cold and I might like to wear long sleeves because I'm cold-- both of these-- one considered modest dress and one not-- are in no way a reflection of behavior. And I think there is too much emphasis and education placed on a dress code and not enough placed on behavior.
I'm not saying that dress does not matter-- look at someone going to a job interview vs. going to the park; these people are dressed differently. Obviously dress means something, but maybe not as much as everyone is hung up about.

miriam

I'm LDS (Mormon) and at Brigham Young University, whichis the church's school, there's an Honor code that every attending student must agree to obeying by signing a contract with their addmittance papers. It adddresses skirt lengths, sleeve lengths, hair styles and colors and even facial hair on guys. But it also talks about being honest and true, chaste. . .there's more than appearance to modesty. A modest person is not proud, is not cruel, is charitable, good and, my favorite, true.
I love that you are taught in your religion to behave "as the daughter's of kings" because i believe that we are.

ben

I agree with what I see of Pres. Bush's daughters. Unfortunately, husbands/fathers have taken the attitude of the first Adam - being passive. Only fathers know what goes on in the minds of men when they see immodestly clothed women. They're responsible for being "gatekeepers" in their house.

Emily

Miriam your school sounds really interesting, as does the honour code. Don't know how practical enforcement would be w/r/t to being honest, true and chaste, but it certainly would make people applying aware and think twice if they weren't prepared to adhere to these values.

Idaho Fan

Check out Mrs. Idaho America's Blog. She took a modest wardrobe (modest evening gown and one piece swimsuit) to the Mrs. America Pageant and made the top ten. You can be beautiful and modest and competitive. She was in the extreme Tucson heat for two weeks and remained modest the entire time. No tube tops and short shorts for her. What a great message she clearly gives and what an amazing example she is to to other women.

Meg

Behavior is definitely a part of modesty! I think the idea of attending a finishing school is fabulous. I might have to see if there's one locally.

LauraC

I have just finished reading "Girls Gone Mild" and couldn't agree more with the overall tone and message. It is disturbing how far both clothing and behavior have deteriorated even since I graduated high school in the 90's. I have three young children and often long for a gentler, more innocent world in which to bring them up. My girls are only 4 and 6 and we have already found ourselves being very selective with TV, movies, clothing, and toys.

I think that finishing school is something that we will provide for our daughters with when they're a little older. Seems to me that it's the kind of thing which would come in handy when meeting your future in-laws AND at a job interview. We are also big fans of them learning how to dance properly (not dancing-with-the-stars-half-naked and while wearing two pounds of makeup and hairspray). I mean dancing elegantly and modestly, having fun like my grandparents did in the 40's. Hard to be modest when you're trying to bump and grind at the prom. As for our son, I can remember one young man in college who had taken ballroom dancing lessons... Let's just say the girls were enamored and lined up to have a turn dancing "for real"!

asli

Hi as a Muslim lady I completely agree with the idea that you can dress modestly and still look good. I have the same concerns about the lack of modesty in clothes and society that is being promoted on TV.

Here is a web page of modest but attractive clothes from Turkey.

http://www.setre.com.tr/
Enjoy

kaylie

to all those ladys out there... you are daughters of a king, daughters of God. i ask you this, why would you want to show off your body in such maners to attracked men? this is not how God wants us to find the perfect match, he made us all uniqe and special in our own way so that justt our personalitiys will spark the perfict man with interest.

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